All over the place

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  • #125747
    stteb
    stteb
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 83

    where  I live just a mile or so ,country roads …took car out to night and followed  a nippy fiesta ..not ST

    came up behind it…saw me and booted  it …doing silly speeds on B roads ..stayed behind him but my rs was all over the road

    ( in sports mode )  normal 80 mph swerving from one side to the other ….the fiesta looked planted on the road,

    i have standard suspension, checked my tyres, pressure a few weeks ago …I have got to put my front sway bar on ..

    so i.ll get a 4 wheel laser alinement  …

    #125789
    71-bda
    71-bda
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 6193

    It is ridiculous isn’t it !! I think the car was designed only for flat smooth American highways where they do not even turn the steering very often either. I got ‘sucked in ‘ to a long repaired groove on the M25 the other day, from behind I must have looked like I was pissed or having a stroke, only at about 65mph too, the car followed the groove like a scalextric car moving me a good 4 foot sideways ! Car in front just sailed on with no effect. I really think Michelins love a groove to follow. As for booting it on an A or B road with narrow lanes or attempting an overtake, I just don’t bother now !



    No nothing.

    No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob.

    No tackiness.

    Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

    Innit?

     

    #125804
    brembo
    brembo
    Participant

    UK - Scotland

    Posts: 1262

    @stteb @71-bda

    Afternoon folks!! My RS has been all over the place lately too!! I don’t know how much of it is down to tyres?? I’m halfway through my 2nd set of Michelin’s!! These are P4S’s, a great tyre, so much grip on the bends, but I’m constantly fighting with my car when driving hard!! With the tyres being half worn and at optimum grip especially in the recent heat I find the car being quite a handful on certain roads. I’m definitely used to the whole veering/pulling thing and still love the RS more than any other car but I wouldn’t be happy given a mate a shot, that’s for sure!!

    I’ve had PDC off for over a year now and felt a massive improvement but it’s almost like it’s coming back again, how can this be??

    Like @stteb says, I find myself having a race with a car that’s definitely slower than mine but depending on the road it’s a bloody struggle as I’m subconsciously overcoming the veering around by lifting off the accelerator at times, you almost get a feel for it. Just a shame you can’t put down full beans and just go for it!!

    I’ve just done 250 miles this afternoon and loved every minute of it, but even crossing the white lines at full throttle gives you a massive lunge as the tyres dig in and drag you over the road!! I can safely say that my RS felt better after having PDC switched off than it does now. Believe it or not I could drive with only one had on the wheel but now it’s both hands on the wheel except for a gear change. Very strange indeed!!

    Cheers, Marc.



    MY/17, F/White, Forged Black Wheels, Recaro Shell Seats, Diamas SiRamik Glasscoat, H&R Anti-Roll Bars/15mm Spacers, EBC Turbo Brake Discs all round/Yellowstuff Brake Pads, Mountune Air Intake/Recirc Valve/SSC/Blue Turbo Hose Kit and Hard Pipe/Uprated Springs/Short Shifter/Rear Motor Mount/Crank Breather Plate, ETS Intercooler, Milltek 100 Cell Cat, Remus Wolf Inside Exhaust, Litchfield Stage 2 map via Cobb Accessport V3.

    #125808
    white-rs2
    white-rs2
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 3423

    These cars and their electronics are voltage sensitive and if the voltage drops if it hasn’t been driven for 2-3 weeks weird stuff happens.

    So is it possible your cars haven’t had a run for a bit or you’ve had the fans full on AC on radio on and blaring lights on etc etc. All causing a voltage drop and then the electronic gremlins kick in and some how PDC could be switched back on ????

    Dont know how much current these cars pull if you have a load of stuff turned on and how much does the alternator puts back if driving current says 14.30 if stationary and engine off 10.6 via the Cobb



    RS Edition (RED).

    Standard as Ford Should of Intended.

    FPM375 Rocks.

    #125817
    brembo
    brembo
    Participant

    UK - Scotland

    Posts: 1262

    @white-rs2

    Evening mate!! I can see what you’re saying, and yes my RS is parked up for 3 weeks every 3 weeks so something like that could be plausible, but I’ve never ever had any starting issues. Always starts first time and I’m not big on blaring tunes and blasting Air-Con. I just can’t see how something would go from switched Off back to being switched On?? Maybe a trip to the Dealership to confirm it’s still turned off might be the next move?? It’s just a bit of a pain in the Ass, plus I’d need to remove my Litchfield map and go back to standard before letting them start playing about with programming stuff just in case something goes wrong!!

    Cheers, Marc.



    MY/17, F/White, Forged Black Wheels, Recaro Shell Seats, Diamas SiRamik Glasscoat, H&R Anti-Roll Bars/15mm Spacers, EBC Turbo Brake Discs all round/Yellowstuff Brake Pads, Mountune Air Intake/Recirc Valve/SSC/Blue Turbo Hose Kit and Hard Pipe/Uprated Springs/Short Shifter/Rear Motor Mount/Crank Breather Plate, ETS Intercooler, Milltek 100 Cell Cat, Remus Wolf Inside Exhaust, Litchfield Stage 2 map via Cobb Accessport V3.

    #125838
    Puddington1001
    Puddington1001
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 33

    Mine did it for the first time in ages a couple of days ago. Proper pulled me across the road. I haven’t had the PDC turned off. Also last night after hard acceleration my engine warning light came on and it went into limp mode. Pulled up turned engine on and off and it had gone and seemed fine. Not sure if the RS likes the hot weather so much!

    #125863

    jonyscam
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 216

    This thread interests the engineer in me… noting there is a VS thread.

    So I am not getting VS of any noticeable level despite all types of driving. I have NOT changed any of my settings e.g. PDC nor anything else. I generally drive in “sport” mode but with “sport suspension” off.

    I have had my original tyres at 38/35 but they are now back to the recommended 41/38. My RS is the FPM375 with standard shocks but i do have the Mountune springs and a DSC controller fitted.

    I am using Super Sports also but am unsure which one specifically (4s?) but assume for now all RS’s come with the same. My front tyres are getting towards needing to be replaced and i am definitely moving towards using Continental Contact 6. I had Continental on my Cooper S and rate them highly….

    For me, the VS must come from the 4×4 system and the tyres are probably a simple multiplier of the symptoms (along with road surface). Changing to another brand could help, but will not eradicate it fully. This would take Ford to admit the condition exists and to tweak its software.

    I do believe the thoughts on here, but I am not seeing it fully on my own car. I do note that on some roads the car is better to drive and on others worse!

    Maybe we need to form a list of specific questions for members to answer…. otherwise there is to much detail missing from the debate to actually get to route cause.

    • What year of manufacture are your cars?
    • What software standard is loaded to your car? (Are there differing software standards floating around for the RS)
    • What speed does VS occur?
    • What revs does the VS occur?
    • What tyres are fitted?
    • What size tyres?
    • What are the tread depth measurements?
    • What are the tyre pressures?
    • What car modes are selected when VS occurs?
    • What road type does the VS occur?
    • straight road or bend?

    The list could go on…

    #125868
    johnybigarms
    johnybigarms
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 969

    I think PDC off does improve things considerably, turning off the ESC (holding the button down for 5 seconds) also improves it, I’m used to it and will give it full beans when overtaking, with both hands on the steering wheel, I can expect and control it on cambered roads, it’s wandering a little but never have I felt it’s gong to put me in the ditch, its just a bit wild, I think there is no cure, the way the RS works it’s 4 wheel drive is the issue, it’s clever rear clutch packs that engage or disengage are the issue, the upside is you can shift power from one side to the other, and from front to rear, but this clever trick is what’s causing the pull over cambers, I think the electronics sense rotational differences when crossing cambers, so adjusts power across the axle by opening and closing these clutch packs, but that’s causing the sudden pull to the left or right, where as the German 4WD systems only shift power from front to back, not side to side, so don’t get this effect.

    Our RS 4WD system is unique, it’s not perfect, it offers excitement and grip levels like no other car on the market, but it has side effects, I have learnt to drive the RS with these side effects and it’s wild and exciting, to others it’s unpredictable and dangerous, I don’t think you will find a cure as it’s inherent in the design, hence Ford can’t do much about it, they will have developed it on non cambered roads (race tracks, testing tracks) and so probably didn’t find the side effect in development.

    Tyres choices and pressures will make very little difference, I also have an Abarth 180 competizione, it’s tuned to 215 BHP and its only 1 tonne in weight, front wheel drive and it’s the same over cambers when overtaking,  it’s not for the faint hearted, but I still love it and accept the experience isn’t perfect, no car is.

    Would I sell either car, Hell no, there both keepers and both desirable assets, both will be cheap cars to own in the long run.

     

    #125869
    andy thornton
    andy thornton
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 430

    Surely a tuning firm like Collins Performance who have a rolling road that is 4wd configured would have noticed differing readings on each 4 wheels when doing their R+D work ,Does VS not show up on a rolling road,I know the cars are tethered down when on rolling road but the output to all 4 wheels may differ -just a thought.



    2018/67 Focus RS Edition extended warranty, gel inserts,ALA Gap insurance,NB styling stainless bonnet struts ,Mountune quick shift ,carbon fibre gear knob.

    #125870
    brembo
    brembo
    Participant

    UK - Scotland

    Posts: 1262

    @johnybigarms

    Afternoon mate!! You make some excellent points!! Think this afternoon I’ll disable the RDU using my COBB ACCESSPORT and go for a blast to see what it’s like?? I’ll let you know how I get on??

    What I still find strange is how my Veering feeling had almost been completely cured by getting PDC turned off a year ago but it’s now coming back and almost to the point it was at before getting PDC turned off???? 🤔🤯.

    Cheers, Marc.



    MY/17, F/White, Forged Black Wheels, Recaro Shell Seats, Diamas SiRamik Glasscoat, H&R Anti-Roll Bars/15mm Spacers, EBC Turbo Brake Discs all round/Yellowstuff Brake Pads, Mountune Air Intake/Recirc Valve/SSC/Blue Turbo Hose Kit and Hard Pipe/Uprated Springs/Short Shifter/Rear Motor Mount/Crank Breather Plate, ETS Intercooler, Milltek 100 Cell Cat, Remus Wolf Inside Exhaust, Litchfield Stage 2 map via Cobb Accessport V3.

    #125875
    indyrs
    indyrs
    Participant

    United Kingdom

    Posts: 40

    Interesting read from all members, I am now suffering from this notion of VS, wild ride, wandering and darting behaviour with the camber of the different B-road surfaces…
    I did a simple test of turning out of a road/lay-bay to join a dual carriageway and gave it more than 3/4 throttle close to WOT (across the gears) and the car was swerving around, needing to back off the power let it settle and using 50-60% throttle travel only.

    I gave my friends a test-drive (me driving) in the RS a couple of weeks ago and noticed this behaviour on roads I know and love, I was very surprised as I haven’t really pushed the car due to mileage and I have to say its not exciting, it becomes very tiresome after a little while… I hope there is a cure and reading some of the responses it requires PDC off, which I need to try from the dealer.
    I drove a Golf R on the same patch of road, no problems at all, an S4 no problems at all, the RS is like a wild stallion, tugging left to right needing throttle modulation for driving stability.

    What I don’t get is, I understand this a trick AWD/4WD system and is one that shifts power from side-to-side as well as front-to-back, so why doesn’t the car drive and behave normally like a GT-R or an Evolution 8 > would. The Japanese muscle from yesteryear had similar setups and earlier adaptations of this AWD – they were planted and sure-footed.

    I hope there is a fix whether software or mechanical and will be keeping a keen eye on this thread…

    #125880
    71-bda
    71-bda
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 6193

    Indy ! I see you mate, long time ! Did you make it to the last Jacks meet with fast ford in attendance? I was but had some stuff to sort round mums with a so-called landscaper/builder ! How many miles you on now? 800? 1200?

    Marc, be interesting to see how you find it in front wheel drive only, I’ve got a feeling its going to be far WORSE !! mine too seems to have come back with a vengeance after being so good initially with pdc off, will ask them to check its still off at 3rd service in March, I think I will ask if I can witness the settings etc in the workshop while its being checked. Also my drivers side steering rack/top mount/anti roll link noise seems to be getting worse too.



    No nothing.

    No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob.

    No tackiness.

    Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

    Innit?

     

    #125881

    jonyscam
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 216

    Love this thread……………….

    @bigarms agree totally, love the car and its imperfections. I will never sell my RS either.

    Has anyone been running with Continental Contact 6 fitted? For a while?

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by jonyscam.
    #125883
    johnybigarms
    johnybigarms
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 969

    Hi Indy, the Jap cars can’t shift power from side to side, the RS system is similar to a Land-rover 4WD system, that’s designed to put power to any wheel that had traction, as to get your grip over rough terrain, ours is a similar system beefed up to handle the power of our RS engine, it’s a great idea on paper, but as we know has side effects a Land-rover wouldn’t find with its poxy power.

    Brembo, great idea, front wheel drive only, look forward to your findings, I suspect you will suffer torque steer as the ST suffers a little of that with less power.

    #125887
    stteb
    stteb
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 83

    Just to add I am running dreamscience imap ultimure    2+, which  clame 395 bhp

    mountune gearbox mount ,I have upgrade sway bar on the back …front yet to fit, along with sports cat

    do you think to much power for the RS set up 🙈

     

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by sttebstteb.
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