Bad ignition after refuel

[frenk]

Gentlemen

Probably we discussed this issue already. In my car it began about last October/November after 120,000 km. Ignition was never a problem whatsoever. Battery is fine, fuel is Shell V-Power 100, only. After a refuel with one dash of top off the engine would not start immediately. It required several attempts while the engine went out 2-3 times. It requires a  good push of the gas pedal to keep it running. After that the problem disappears completely until the next refuel. So it is related to refueling.

In December the 6th service was done properly. Petrol cleaner, change of fuel filter and spark plugs. What was initially believed to be gone is back again: no good start after refuel. I abstained from topping off, left the cover open while paying at the cashier, to no avail. The issue persists.

Some people on the internet speculated about a clogged vapour valve in the tank. I have no clue. The master mechanic identified the rich fuel mix of the Revo map as culprit and pointed to the soot on the spark plugs. But this explanation cannot be true since bad ignition occurs only after full refueling. Any suggestions?

Cheers, Frenk 😎

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[9designs]

If you only 3/4 filled the tank at a fuel stop, does it still have the issue?

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Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

Was UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension !!!

    

[71-bda]

Frenk, next time you stop for fuel and you think it could happen again, open the bonnet and leave it open while you refuel and then when finished, start it with the bonnet open and see if it helps! if it starts ok, shut the bonnet and fook off !!

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No nothing.

No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob, thats now been replaced by an RS knob innit.

No tackiness.

Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

Innit?

 

[frenk]

Thanks for the suggestions chaps. I’ll try and report back soon.

On the other hand, from you experts I expect a complete causal chain and a mechanistic model 😉

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[faber]

I had the same concern from time to time I was resigned to refuel half of the tank to no longer have to worry. I was advised to switch to colder candles problem solved.

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Gel DMB / Pieces carbone AWMODS / Frein a main carbone RS / Bouton carboneRS / Peinture noir mat pavillon + coques rétroviseur + clignotant séquentielle black / Feu arrières séquentielle black / Antenne courte sparco / Protection ceinture RS / Roue forgées avec sigle RS / Pneus Michelin pilot sport 4s / Bandeau Ford Performance / Garniture carbVone tableau de bord / Vérins de capot moteur / Ligne Scorpion embout inox / Système télécommande de soupape JPperformance / Kit induction Mountun / Kit secondaire Mountune / Durite noire Moutune / Filtre Moutune v2 / Chambre d’insonorisation Moutune / Valve Mountune / Kit durites d’échangeur Mishomoto / Plaquettes freins Ferodo 2500 / Garde de boue Mountune / Stage2 BRPerformance 397 cv et 617 couple / Bougies NGK Iridium / Bras de changement de vitesse Mountune / Vase d’expansion Mishimoto noir /plaque denumérotation n°16417/lampe d’eau couleur blanche RS/plaque feu de frein arrière Ford performance/échangeur Mishimoto +durite Silicon Mishimoto/plaque Ford Performance immatriculation

[GM]

@frenk might be a real long shot, but the DSC replaces you fuel level controller…. Just check its firmly in place with the plug secure ? As i said purely a long shot, but me being me i would visit anything I’ve changed also, just incase..

Also at your mileage would be great to drop off your intake manifold and have a look at what sort of build up its there from the DI. Mine was quite bad surprising low mileage and very few short trips 🧐

[frenk]

Cheers guys.

We have a couple of valuable suggestions now. Not all are strictly related to the very moment after filling her up, but are worth an investigation. What came to mind is my use of always the same petrol pump at the same station. The petrol quality or the station tank cleanliness might have changed. Might be worth testing either the next pump with 95 RON or another brand altogether, possibly 98 RON since Shell is the only one offering 100 RON hereabouts. Another possibility would be the consumed activated-charcoal filter. But yet again, I would expect misfiring all the time and the error code P0441 which is not the case.

I’ll let you know 😎

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[frenk]

One more remark:

A colleague at work mentioned a TV report from Germany. The ADAC has reported several cases where automatic start/stop failed on red lights. Apparently, the induction loop in the tarmac underneath the car caused enough signal disruption that cars wouldn’t start anymore.

Very interesting… 🤔

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[frenk]

Okay, filled her up at another petrol station, same Shell V-Power 100. Same fault 😕

After a 25 km drive the issue was gone. Engine started normally. Back-of-the-envelope this makes about 2 litre below full. Keep in mind when refilling.

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[frenk]

I made 100 km and consumed about 9.5 litre. I filled in exactly 7.0 litre. Issue is gone! This is a viable solution.

The tank now was filled at “full minus 2.5 litre”. By “full” I mean the volume when the automatic pump nozzle shuts off.

Plausible explanation(s) anybody?

P.S. Swiss government gave a press conference today: home office mandatory, shops closed, pubs closed, until end of February…

Slàinte mhath 🤪

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[frenk]

Update.

The last weeks I filled up to several “full” levels after the chime display of 80 km left in the tank:

First time 43 litre, then 42, 41, 40, 39… The issue with bad ignition persists.

Note 1: gas comsumption before refuel 9.5 l/100km. After refuel 7.2 l/100km.

Note 2: the issue appears only after empty tank, not when topping up from 3/4 to full.

Weird…

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[71-bda]

Still seems like HEAT SOAK to me Frenk !  If you stop and only put in 7 litres it wont take as long as a full 40+ litre fill up so the car is sat for less time to get heat soak. Next time you have to refill and have an empty tank, stop at the pump, switch off, and wait however long you estimate it takes you to fill up and pay and then re start, so maybe  5 minutes?  so do not fill up, just simply stop and restart after 5 mins and see if you have the issue ! It cannot be the fuel that is the problem because that fuel is still only in the tank when you try to start after a fill up, the original fuel is still in the pump and lines and fuel rail and injectors. Have you tried the “open the bonnet while refueling takes place” technique??  oh, and I never fill to the click on the pump becuase if I do, I have fuel all on the floor under the car at the station ! so I stop before its full to the brim !

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No nothing.

No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob, thats now been replaced by an RS knob innit.

No tackiness.

Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

Innit?

 

[frenk]

Thanks for the key word, @71-bda. Heat Soak. Maybe that was as well the reason for the dropouts during track day more than a year ago?

I keep it in mind for the next refuel and try as you suggested. Cheers 😎

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[frenk]

Update.

@71-bda: Today I stopped at the same petrol pump and opened the bonnet. The tank was empty to 80 km, the first chime (about 5 litre left). I filled her up to the automatic stop of the nozzle, the pump screen displayed 44.5 litre. No topping up.

Then I paid in the shop and had a good chat with the till girl. I came back, closed the bonnet and started the motor: the issue persists.

I’m afraid, your hypothesis about heat soak has to be discarded. Next suggestion? 😎

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[turbo-tone]

@frenk

Do you ever run the car, stop and shut down the car for 5 minutes and then start? Does it only ever happen as fueling is the only place you shut the car down and restart s few minutes later?

Only logical explanation/thing that changes is the fuel but I can’t see the issue being fuel🤷‍♂️

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Collins Cp2 map. Ramair induction. Mountune mud flaps. Scorpion Sports Cat. Scorpion Tracker. Wind deflectors. NB washer jets and shark fin aerial. EBC Grooved discs, YellowStuff pads. Airtec Intercooler, Miltek cat back with titanium tips. Collins quickshift. DSC Controller

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