DSC Module Loan/Hire offer

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  • #141752
    coastliner
    coastliner
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 3348

    This is an interesting theory.



    Coastliner

    #141758
    71-bda
    71-bda
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 7066

    It is coast ! So many people change something or bolt something on to their car and then say its either faster or handles better etc just because as they have spent a load of dough, then it must of had some positive effect. Its like you hear folk say ” oh i always take my car to Tom for a service etc etc, when I get it back its much better, more responsive and uses less petrol” blah blah blah, when in reality all Tom has done is change the oil and filter, maybe a fuel filter and air filter and pumped the tyres up. The actual perceived improvement is all in the HEAD !



    No nothing.

    No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob.

    No tackiness.

    Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

    Innit?

     

    #141759
    frenk
    frenk
    Participant

    Switzerland

    Posts: 526

    @71-bda: Your strategy is indeed standard procedure in many technical areas, a so-called double-blind ABX test. That is, you know what A and B should do. You get blindfolded and then presented with X and have to decide whether it was A or B. Fair enough.

    However, when I presented my DSC-modded car to my wife and daughter (without telling them) they both said that the “tit-out-of-the-bra-effect”  (in track mode with hard dampers) was gone. Now, I know that some men have always tits in their heads. But in this case, the female lactation organs were indeed physically present on their chests, not in my head, innit 😉



    Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

    #141760
    white-rs2
    white-rs2
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 4007

    More of the same blah blah blah



    RS Edition.

    FPM375 Rocks

    The rest of the “M” maps suck

    #141761
    9designs
    9designs
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 1558

    Nice idea,  but try and drive the same route exactly the same, impossible. As the DSC is active adjusting based on input rather than static settings you never get the same ride twice. Trust me I’ve tried even bought an accelerometer.

    Many wives have now accepted to ride in an RS after a DSC had been experienced.



    Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

    FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

    UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension. 

    DSC Modules – IN STOCK -Price drop – £1079 inc

    TracTive Suspension kit  – POA   

    Jacking Blocks – BLUE & Black in stock. £21

    email to:-  9designstechserv@gmail.com 

        

    #141771
    71-bda
    71-bda
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 7066

    I totally agree with “lucky phil” on the other forum….

    I am highly scepticle of any mod that isnt backed by measureable data. No matter how hard a person tries to be objective its unreliable subjective information. I’ve experienced this in motorcycle racing and learned that theres often more gains in tuning the riders head than the bike.

    Engine mods are for the most part easy to evaluate by a dyno but there is still subjective issues around feel and driveability to consider.

    The only way to test this controller with any kind or rigor is a double blind test with the same car on the same roads on the same day with the same driver obviously not knowing whether or not its fitted and then by lap times at the track with someone that can cut consistent times to begin with. Considering its a simple plug and play deal it shouldnt be too difficult especially considering the fact its not a cheap unit and it needs to pass the bang for buck test.

    If it were cheap and chearful it probably wouldnt matter.”

    If you say you cannot compare two drives on the same road, doing the same route in the same traffic conditions and rough speeds,  then how the hell can you go out and say that one drive is better because it had the DSC fitted??!!( you even say every drive with the dsc will be different!) Amazing how folk get all touchy when they are trying to protect their £400 per unit profit margin !!  I could say ” oh, you did not drive over the same bumps  maybe thats why it felt more comfy ( even as we know the DSC does not do much for comfort or to soften the ride), most folk only rave about it in hard/sport mode / when cornering hard or on track !!  If you cannot tell the difference on the road between two test drives over the same route, one with DSC and one without, I would suggest the DSC is doing sweet FA !! For £1000 box I would want the ride to be considerably improved and easily proven and demonstrated in a back to back test. When I suggest that , I’m poo-poo’d by the dealer and his back-up man.  H ah ah aha ha ha.

     



    No nothing.

    No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob.

    No tackiness.

    Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

    Innit?

     

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by 71-bda71-bda.
    • This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by 71-bda71-bda.
    #141775
    9designs
    9designs
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 1558

    You still about ?   twisting everything for your own bored sad little existence, you wouldn’t no fact or data if it smacked you in the face.

    So once again just for you, you do feel a difference,  but to drive the same route in an identical manner is humanly impossible on a public highway. So over a few back to back journeys you build up an appreciation of what it’s doing and when. In that you feel the pogo effect gone, jolting and jarring reduced and more controlled an planted over the bumps at any half decent speed.

    No one has ever claimed it would turn someone into Lewis Hamilton on a track either….

    Neither can software alone turn the stock dampers into a limo, for that you need the Tractive damper kit as well.

    Really don’t care what you think, or what your agenda is, makes no difference to me, but it might spoil other peoples enjoyment of the car,  if that’s your contribution to the RS forum, then others will judge as they see fit.

     

     



    Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

    FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

    UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension. 

    DSC Modules – IN STOCK -Price drop – £1079 inc

    TracTive Suspension kit  – POA   

    Jacking Blocks – BLUE & Black in stock. £21

    email to:-  9designstechserv@gmail.com 

        

    #141777
    kr1s
    kr1s
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 343

    This double blind test is exactly what the two of us did.
    me and fellow owner and forum member Dave.
    following Road tests where the gadget felt different but not exactly better we spent all day on track.
    I really wanted the box to give results as it’s such an easy change to make.
    to cut out other variables we used one car one driver and obviously varied the boxes labelled A and B.
    both the track, and me driving, slowly and steadily got better and faster all day.
    neither of us could tell any real difference between boxes and we didn’t know how to reach a conclusion.
    finally it turned out that every improvement to lap time (to previous ones)  was produced using the standard box.
    So for me fixed suspension even if flawed is more performance giving than the more advanced but variable box.
    This Controller will certainly stop the pogoing which is caused by underdamping in the normal driving  mode with the standard box.

    #141778
    71-bda
    71-bda
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 7066

    If the DSC retailer had felt totally confident in the DSC box he would have said ” yes, do a back to back blind  test ” because he should be so confident in the difference and “improvement” in ride quality being easily noticeable, but judging from above, the improvement (if any) is hardly discernable !  MOST people have wanted to soften up or make the ride more comfortable , which it doesnt appear to do, rather than what people have said it does ( and most noticeably in ‘hard’ or Sport mode) which is apparently improve cornering/control roll?

    Nice one Kris ! someone who actually does some some proper testing and not sheep mentality or “I’ve bought it, it cost a  lot, so its got to be better”! attitude.

    P.S. Its “know data” not “no data”



    No nothing.

    No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob.

    No tackiness.

    Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

    Innit?

     

    #141780
    9designs
    9designs
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 1558

    @BDA, Why do you constantly ignore what’s written?  the feedback and what has been described as the effect…..  No one has ever claimed the dampers became magically soft,  clearly you have little comprehension.  The fact that you can make comfort improvement in the ride and handling by using software is fortunate thing.     For sure, go buy 2.5K – 3.5K  plus for new dampers and springs if you want a huge improvement.  But not everyone is in that market.   So what should we do, give up?   scrap/ban any other alternative because it doesn’t make it like a limo for peanuts?

    You know I’d like a 500 hp remap for £100 and no need to forge the engine….  not expecting too much is it? by your measure seems not.

    So I guess the feedback is the one unit I was asked to accept back for a refund, which I did.    But perhaps now I will add a little context to that testing after looking back through my emails.

    First I always ask what people are looking to achieve, if they are wanting more than I think the module can deliver I advise alternatives.  Initially I was told this was for a son’s present, to help the ride. Mention of wanting to improve lap times was only said after.

    First feedback was “All good so far with the controller”.  “I’ve only tested it in normal standard setting but passengers like it.”

    Then stated going to test it on track to see if it improves the times, with the comment  “I need a passenger to assess the handling as it takes all my concentration to drive”   How a passenger can judge handling and not the driver still puzzles me.

    Apparently the test day was  “Cold and wet around 4 degrees, Getting drier and warmer later”   and they played around lowering tyres pressures!

    Now the track mode is set up to leave the inside wheel soft to allow bumping over the kerbs,  I guess that wasn’t needed on a steady novice learning track drive.  So yep perhaps the constant stiffness of stock on a smooth wet cold Brands Hatch short circuit did as well.  So really sorry it didn’t knock 5 seconds a lap off a novice outing.   In my view it was never intended to be kept, was a yarn spun just to borrow one for a bit of track day fun, which just happened to be on the 7th day of my 7 day return policy I had running, sorry but that’s just how it came across to me at the time.

    The point of the module is it’s software driven suspension settings, you can go into it and change how it behaves and how soft/stiff it goes. It’s limited by the stock dampers, but squeeze all you can out of them.

    As I said unless you are prepared to change the springs and dampers it’s the best option about.   It still does as I’ve always stated and claimed, over 2 years on and nearly 50 customers…..   One chap replaced his car and came back and bought a second one as his first mod.

    I sell it because I like it, not because I need to, it’s an evening job, not my living.

     

     

     

     



    Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

    FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

    UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension. 

    DSC Modules – IN STOCK -Price drop – £1079 inc

    TracTive Suspension kit  – POA   

    Jacking Blocks – BLUE & Black in stock. £21

    email to:-  9designstechserv@gmail.com 

        

    #141781
    71-bda
    71-bda
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 7066

    You sell it because it has a protectionist producer who price fixes, that means you cannot , or do not have to ,  compete price-wise with other re-sellers of the product thereby maintaining the very healthy £400+ markup. If you were doing it for love of RS owners you would simply sell it for cost plus say £100 handling/profit at a price of  £700 and just “tell DSC that you are selling it for full retail” !! Please do not pretend you are selling it to do anyone a favour or help the RS brand, its about your profit.

    you say

    ”  The point of the module is it’s software driven suspension settings, you can go into it and change how it behaves and how soft/stiff it goes. It’s limited by the stock dampers, but squeeze all you can out of them.”

    Thats where you get misleading. You cannot make the std Ford damper any softer than what it is in the std ford “normal” mode setting, ( or any firmer than the sport setting ) so why say you can adjust how soft it goes?? Damper has two settings, lets call them Firm and very firm.  That is achieved by an electronic switch or solenoid in the damper controlled by the switch on the column stalk. The solenoid opens an aperture ( or valve if you like) that when open allows damper oil through in Firm mode and shuts it off in Very Firm mode.( if my memory is right , could be the other way round but do not think so)  That solenoid can only ever be open or shut, it is NOT a variable valve or stepamotor, its open, or shut, firm or very firm. You cannot physically make a solenoid open half way or quarter way etc in this case to vary the aperture size and presumably control damper rate. Its like a light bulb and an off off switch, its either on or off, the solenoid does not and cannot operate like a dimmer switch. Funny how after all this time DSC still refuse to come up with any graph showing the dsc controlled damper versus the Ford controlled damper, they have always come up with a feeble excuse!

    One reason I go on about the units value , or in my eyes lack of value is  because to me its like buying a bed from  a certain big bed retailer or a settee from a certain furniture group,  you see a bed and its got a £500 sale ticket on “in sale reduced from £1000” and its almost a permanent all year round sale  so to me, that bed is never really a £1000 bed, its always at most a £500 bed and probably bought into stock for around £250-£300. Same  for the DSC, its a plastic box, yes I know the software development is what you are paying for, but really its still a £600 box plus £400+ profit in your wallet, with no negotiating ! As lots of members on the other site have said, if it was 500 or 600 they would take a punt on it, but not at £1100 for its limited benefit for road use. Hell, you even said yourself on a blind back to back test on the same road route you would be pushed to tell a difference, as KriS has confirmed too I believe. But hey, £20000 profit over two years for a evening job for the love of the product ain’t bad is it !!



    No nothing.

    No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob.

    No tackiness.

    Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

    Innit?

     

    #141782
    18stealth
    18stealth
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 247

    #141783
    18stealth
    18stealth
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 247

    Unpredictable then!  F**K THAT!

    #141784
    coastliner
    coastliner
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 3348

    Back on thread, I am amazed that there was no take up of the loan unit as this would have been a try before you buy albeit at a small cost. I enjoy the exchange of views on this forum and have learned much from fellow members most of which have more expertise than myself. I enjoy reading all the threads even if I am not into modding my car in an extreme way. The RS is a special car from a mainstream manufacturer, I have a limited list of upgrades and modifications which most to me are improvements on the original. Going 520bhp is not for me or the more extreme bodywork bolt on addons. I have gone down these routes many years ago and invariably learned from experience. That said I do enjoy others sharing there modification experience with the forum.



    Coastliner

    #141785
    white-rs2
    white-rs2
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 4007

    None on this forum can drive the same road twice and give the same journey on either OEM, KW, TRACTIVE, BILSTEIN, AST, OHLINS etc its virtually impossible.

    What the DSC does is give you the best damper settings for the data it receives at that time from its factory sensors being – speed, braking, acceleration, steering etc etc.

    So yes its totally predictable in every aspect, be it 50mph bend or the same bend at 80mph it sets the car up for the data given. This then gives the optimum settings. Rather than one size fits all as per the factory and virtually every other suspension kit does.

    Damper Ranges

    Red Stock – Green KW – Blue Tractive



    RS Edition.

    FPM375 Rocks

    The rest of the “M” maps suck

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