Going down the Forging Rabbit hole.

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  • #189166

    9designs
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 1792

    Looks like I will be, as I’m buying a set of pistons off a fellow owner who has them surplus to their build that went a different direction.

    I’ve been thinking about it for a while now, if I had a crystal ball and knew my engine wasn’t going to blow one day then I wouldn’t bother.  Happy with my MSD tune and power level, so it’s just preventative upgrade.   When you read how many engines blew in the week after lockdown and got sent to a leading rebuilder it’s alarming.

    So while I think I’ve always treated the engine correctly, drive around LSPI potential problems and done all I can think of there’s still no guarantee.

    As I’m going basic/minimal there a few details I’m still researching.

    Will be Wossner pistons and probably PEC rods.

    Balance shaft delete:

    Why?  I’m reluctant, Ford put it in for a reason, at my tune/rpm level does it matter, any negatives if removed, can you feel extra vibrations etc?

    I’ll stick with the OEM Head Gasket.

    Head bolts, again OEM would be okay I think, do the 3rd Party ones get torqued to a higher level?  The OEM ones are doing okay on my engine now. Any evidence OEM have a problem?

    Bearings, I believe OEM can be used with the rods etc.   As mine are already “matched and bedded in”  I would look to refit them, obviously in the same location. Unless there are signs of wear or damage, then would fit new.

    Comments and thoughts?



    Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

    FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

    UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension. 

    DSC Modules – Back order-No ETA !!

    TracTive Suspension kit  – £3350 inc   

    Jacking Blocks – Reserve to buy. £21

    email to:-  9designstechserv@gmail.com 

        

    #189167

    kaxe
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 23

    If you are forking out all that money you might as well get the Mountune Head Gasket for £130 🙂

    Thinking about it myself but my power level is fine for me at the moment around 380bhp, it’s more suspension I’m looking at now so I better get on your list for a controller lol! 🙂

    #189180

    robroy
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 621

    I would of thought if you going to the trouble of a rebuild you may as well over build it , with decent head bolts , bearing etc, I guess use what ever the builder recommends , where will you take it ?

    #189181

    RS@WUB
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 781

    @9designs I was in similar situation when my HG failed. I went forged for no other reason other than why not while engine apart.

    I am sure there are others who will disagree but I found the general feeling was Ford HG and Bolts are easily good enough for 500bhp if installed correctly.

    I added a deck brace – does it help who knows but again why not?

    balance shaft delete – mines still in and was not advised otherwise but my goal was to keep as much as possible “standard” but the parts I did replace I went overkill for what i will be running which won’t be anymore than 450 (famous last words) but I’ve been running revo 1 for nearly 2 years and just made the jump to Revo 2, next step be sabre tune or other live mapping but that be in next few years so my build perfect for what I want.

    will it help it not going bang? Who knows! I’m sure many will say go ST block etc but it’s all money at end of day.

    #189193

    9designs
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 1792

    @RS@WUB,   have heard and same view on the HG and bolts.   Deck braces worry me,  firstly open deck isn’t new and I don’t see as the disaster the ‘tinternet would have us believe. Plus do they restrict waterways and cooling through the head?  Same I don’t see need for ST block,  when people are running over 500 on the RS block.

    The 3rd party HG I read are thicker, lowers compression ratio.  The Wossner pistons already lower it slightly, so I don’t think I want a double lowering of compression ratio. So OEM feels the right way to go.

    Thanks for confirm balance shaft,  I’ll do the same and keep it, also want as OEM as possible, just fix Ford’s cost cutting !

    I have MSD 420,  once done I’ll get live mapping update to account for it being forged, I think they then push it nearer 450, with more torque.

    Looking at the usual builders, Pumaspeed, FJRS etc.     Sounds like it can be done in place without removing the engine, which I prefer. Not sure they ever go back as the factory did it.

     


    @Kaxe
    ,  you need new Tractive dampers.    Just done 2 demo’s both were impressed, one is being fitted, another planning to. (3rd order without demo).  Better than a GRY 😉 ….. Oh I can supply Tractive for that as well LOL.



    Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

    FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

    UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension. 

    DSC Modules – Back order-No ETA !!

    TracTive Suspension kit  – £3350 inc   

    Jacking Blocks – Reserve to buy. £21

    email to:-  9designstechserv@gmail.com 

        

    #189195

    kaxe
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 23

    haha I bet it’s mega £££ though! 🙂

    I dooo need to do something with the RS at some point as the springs need to go at bare minimum as they are Mountune ones and they have corroded! 🙁

    #189197

    boomboom
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 220

    Hi @9designs, I’m looking at going forged as running MSD420 for the same reasons to protect the engine and peace of mind, any recommendations for pistons and rods.

    #189228

    9designs
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 1792

    Pumaspeed webpage is a handy place to start, product info and what’s available.   The all claim to be the best obviously.



    Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

    FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

    UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension. 

    DSC Modules – Back order-No ETA !!

    TracTive Suspension kit  – £3350 inc   

    Jacking Blocks – Reserve to buy. £21

    email to:-  9designstechserv@gmail.com 

        

    #189231

    boomboom
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 220

    @9designs thanks

    #189240

    RS@WUB
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 781

    @9designs

     

    this was my build for info. I had to go ibeam conrods as that was all that was available at the time in the country due to covid/no stock/to many RS going bang at same time.

    #189241

    Nateodog
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 931

    Stock head gasket is fine

     

    dont use pec rods or wossner pistons if your pocket allows

     

    use mahle pistons

    as for rods

    carillo

    manley

     



    SABRE

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    OEMeth installs

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    sabre tuning

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    Hel

    Owen developments

    WP Pro brakes

    HELIX Automotive

     

    #189243

    9designs
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 1792

    Getting the wossner pistons for 500 notes, which is what started me off.  This isn’t a big power build 😉   More a budget friendly protection plan 😃

    thanks for the list, very useful 👍



    Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

    FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

    UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension. 

    DSC Modules – Back order-No ETA !!

    TracTive Suspension kit  – £3350 inc   

    Jacking Blocks – Reserve to buy. £21

    email to:-  9designstechserv@gmail.com 

        

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by 9designs.
    #189246

    white-rs2
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 4566

    Another Rod suppler which have a pocket friendly rod is Callies via Litchfield Callies as in the light weight crank people.

    Their rods are used in a Ford Performance rated 500whp 2.3 short block build about $6.2k it’s worth a read of what Ford Performance will offer a a budget friendly safe build

    https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6009-23EB

    The Deck-brace doesn’t affect the cooling or block any water ways.

    Both Ford Performance (with warranty) and Mountune UK/USA produce an RS/Mustang 2.3 motor with a deck-brace fitted as standard.

    This is basically the USA Mountune short block but $2.5k cheaper.

    And another vote here for the OEM head-gasket latest revision and OEM head studs/bolts

     



    RS Edition.

    FPM375 Rocks

    The rest of the “M” maps suck

    #189247

    RS@WUB
    Participant

    UK - England

    Posts: 781

    @9designs budget friendly it’s not but it’s not as bad as people think and there more than 2 or 3 specialists who get named dropped a lot who more than capable of doing what is essentially a simple job for a competent mechanic aka not Ford 🙂

    the real question is whether builds like mine and others really makes a difference? I don’t know but it takes the majority of concern and doubts go away…..for now lol. Mines never run better since done and not lost drop of coolant so I’m happy

    #189270

    rainydays
    Participant

    Luxembourg

    Posts: 531

    Make sure you have Nurofen for the subsequent headaches with such an engine :).



    Nitrous Blue Dyno Tuned @ 600 NM | Wagner Tuning – Competition IC | REVO Carbon CAI 

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