The great Hi-Fi debate

[9designs]

Thought I’d start a thread on the high and lows of Hi-Fi,  graphs vs ears, snake oil, double blind testing, placebo effect and suggestion bias.

So I buy with my ears, don’t bother much with spec sheets, and choose cables to tweak the sound.

Vinyl is still a more enjoyable listen,  but the room is one of the most important part of any system and set up.

Hopefully 71BDA will be along shortly to explain all……..  😀

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Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

Was UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension !!!

    

[frenk]

I’m all in 9designs. Since 25 years I am into high-end audio with NAD and Rowen. Bring it on 😀

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[71-bda]

All depends on what type of music you listen to really, a good hifi wont party like a 90s rave with chest pounding bass, crank up a good hifi with some trance or drum and bass or house etc and your ears tend to bleed from the treble before you get to enjoy upsetting the neighbours with LFO “blow the speakers mix” of LFO circa 1992? A big set of cheap Jamos or tannoys for the party maybe and keep the Sonus fabers or kefs for your nighttime relax. Yes to vinyl ( played wet ) and to a valve amp or pre amp too. I’ve got tinnitus badly in both ears now so I dont get the inky blackness in quiet passages of music, I just get high pitched interference in my head( too many night clubs and probably thanks to Hawkwind live at the Hammersmith Odeon ’86 where we were deafened up top in the upper circle so much, we thought it a good idea to go and stand down the front in front of the stage speakers after the interval!!)  For about 3 days after we we couldnt hear anything !! good night though !  Pardon?

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No nothing.

No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob, thats now been replaced by an RS knob innit.

No tackiness.

Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

Innit?

 

[9designs]

Not sure I would say type of music is that discriminating.  For sure it might be a waste having a high end system and play some crappy LoFo music on it.   A big “hi end” (horrible term really) system will kind to your ears and “blow the bloody doors off”.  Big set of Tannoy or PMC will move air and be sweet.   Only if you have the room corrected enough not to boom and swamp everything.

Playing vinyl wet,  who was it saying about placebo’s,  is that wet with snake oil or angel tears?   😉

Oh hearsay, I stream as well, having ripped all my CD’s and signed up to Tidal.

Mention Sono’s again and I’ll have Kenny ban you .. ROFL      Next we will be talking and praising Zetec S’s    😉

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Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

Was UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension !!!

    

[71-bda]

I play it wet to lubricate the groove man, its all about not wearing your vinyl out with the needle man. Plus , I just swear it sounds better.. infact many studies show a few db better Signal to noise ratio. You got to have real clean records first though. silicon oil too as a wet lube for playing. try playing a scratchy old vinyl thats practically useless , wet will make it cool. Innit.

and no, Hifi speakers do not party well, they are too accurate and bright, the treble will kill you way before the bass gets kicking.

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No nothing.

No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob, thats now been replaced by an RS knob innit.

No tackiness.

Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

Innit?

 

[Kenny]

Alot of talk of lube and oil here

[9designs]

Now I see where you fear of wear comes from…   Well some of my albums are close on 40 years old and haven’t worn out yet, they are also clean Any dust or contamination made wet, will turn into a grinding paste, so I’m not convinced.

HiFi speakers are not bright, well good ones are not, unless your counting the high street brands that are tuned to impress for 30 seconds in Richer Sounds.   More likely your trying to generate bass in a small uncontrolled room that is attenuating it, you need bass traps man ….big’uns  😀

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Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

Was UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension !!!

    

[frenk]

Gentlemen, let’s get more tangible. Here is my rig as it was set up a year ago:

When I listen to Diana Krall on CD she comes alive in 3D levitating in front of me. How’s that for a start? 😉

 

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[rampant]

I totally agree that vinyl can offer a much more pleasant musical and listening “experience”.

That said, I once had a long conversation with a “sound engineer” about this and he *totally and utterly disagreed* about vinyl being a “better sound” that provides a more pleasant experience…

The moral of the story is try to test any potential sound equipment purchases in your own home with the rest of your system and your favourite tunes.  If sound quality is more important than room décor, “practical-living” furniture arrangement, etc, then I absolutely agree that you need to adjust the room to the sound that is desired.  Sadly, few of us have special rooms for music listening, though, so that’s why I have always tried to test equipment in place in my “living space”.  Which means that I have always preferred front-ported speakers that can be placed close to the rear wall and in corners – unlike the rear-ported kind that can sound horrid – out of phase – of just flabby – when placed in a “living space” instead of letting them breathe freely away from the walls in a dedicated music listening room.

Additionally, my own sound system has dual role TV(BluRay movie) and music duties.  Last year I changed out my 15 year old Tannoy M3 floorstanders/Tannoy MC centre/Celestion rear satellites/Celestion sub for a complete new DALI Zensor 5.1 floorstander/centre/rear/sub package.

The Zensor floorstanders are wonderful and the sub is truly epic, but the “matching” centre speaker was totally way off whack tonally, so I sold it separately and re-instated the Tannoy MC…

 

Anyway – these sound engineers are a funny bunch.  Always telling us that they “could” make CDs sound just like vinyl *if they wanted to*, but instead they engineer the sound to be “more realistic” – which actually means *less pleasant* and *less enjoyable* to those who enjoy the warm engaging sound of vinyl and valves – but the sound engineers absolutely refuse to listen to this sage advice from “audiophiles”.  Ignoramuses.

Yours Aye

Mark H

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// ’17 Nitrous Blue // Forged Alloys // Michelin Super Sports // Painted Calipers // Sync 3 // Lux Pack // Winter Pack // Black Gel Spoiler Badges // Blue Gel Wheel Inserts // GTechniq Liquid Crystal // GTechniq Alloy Armour // sold Jun ’18

[71-bda]

@9 I did say “You got to have real clean records first though.”   Regarding hifi speakers can’t party, what I mean is, I have been in my car and played some dance/trance/ambient stuff and although the hifi quality is not there, the BASS is ! You go to a night club and its all about the bass and volume, you do not get the highs in a club that you do at home on the hifi, no one wants to be deafened by treble, they want their chests pounded with bass overload! And i agree with rampo, a well mastered CD will always sound better to my ears than a vinyl, less hassle too, I dont have to get the wood glue out to clean the CD like I do with a record before I wet it to play it !! Clean your grooves man, and keep them clean.

Nice system Frenk ! I’m currently using an MF Nu Vista pre and XA200 amps and Kef reference 3-2s

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No nothing.

No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob, thats now been replaced by an RS knob innit.

No tackiness.

Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

Innit?

 

[71-bda]

Oh and 9, I flogged my PMCs, they were beautiful on some music, but definitely sounded a bit thin and lacking bass on other stuff, plus that annoying little tweeter was shrill at times. So many of todays speakers ARE bright in the pursuit of detail and clarity. I like quad elctrostatics for some tune but they were not versatile enough so flogged them too. I keep finding myself coming back to kef.

---

No nothing.

No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob, thats now been replaced by an RS knob innit.

No tackiness.

Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

Innit?

 

[9designs]

Fortunately the chance of me listening to dance trance music and chest thumping levels is never going to happen, now a having Dain Krall in my room is completely different matter 😀

Some time ago I discovered GIK Acoustic, and room treatment.  Spending a grand on room treatment is like spending 10K on equipment.  Luckily, I have a spare bedroom I can call a music room and treat as I required.

As room treatment has advance it’s getting more domestically friendly, so I’ll be back to GIK soon order some Art Panel.  Basically, a treatment panel that looks like a picture or paining etc.

Moved house recently and have been given permission to “treat” the lounge, so the main kit could be relocated downstairs if I can manage the décor to an acceptable standard 😀

I’ve used a Dynaudio Gemini kit speaker for 25 years, but last 4-5 years been using PMC Fact8 in my main system.   Plan is to build another bigger better speaker for the new house.

Stopped spinning CD nearly 10 years ago when I bought a Linn DS and a NAS drive and ripped the lot.

---

Magnetic Grey with all the best bits

FPM375/COBB/MSD-  Quaife LSD,  DSC+Tractive  Suspension,  HJS200 cell sports cat and MT Cooler. Sync3 upgrade.

Was UK seller for DSC & Tractive  Active suspension !!!

    

[frenk]

Once the flavour of the music is determined (from Prog Rock to classic) and the rig is chosen (my focus is on precise 3D imaging of the stage) the other 50% of the fidelity is given by the room. I have a living room geometry that enhances resonance modes and a floating hardwood floor on concrete promoting boom. Therefore, my speakers are decoupled from the floor by 15 kg granite slabs on 3 rubber feet. There are 8 corner traps that attenuate frequencies from 70 to 250 Hz. It’s sort of a LEDE set up – live end, dead end. And of course the listening position is carefully aligned in a triangle with ropes (equal distance) and laser pointer (angle)  😎

Fortunately, the Mrs has always  had a good ear for my audiophilic necessities and the decoration was never a problem 😉

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[frenk]

Oh, I forgot the components:

CD Player: NAD 546BEE, Speakers: Rowen S6 2-way, fully bipolar, Amplifiers: Rowen bi-amping pre and end w/ext active crossover, Turntable: Project Debut, Pick-up: Ortofon 2M black

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Revo Stage 1 – JCR super low seating frame – Mishimoto gas pedal spacer – DSC sport controller

[71-bda]

Frenk.. I think a few on this forum are bi-polar !!! 😎

---

No nothing.

No Mods. No rockers. Just a chunky knob, thats now been replaced by an RS knob innit.

No tackiness.

Std as Ford intended, but with a space saver wheel and jack and nuts and wheel brace. oh.. and flaps, a man has got to have flaps.

Innit?

 

[Author]

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